ALSO YOU CAN LISTEN ON
In this compelling episode of YourForest Podcast, host Matthew Kristoff explores the transformative power of intentional fire and the necessary paradigm shift wildfire. He is joined by two leaders in wildfire policy and management: Marissa Christansen, Executive Director of the Climate and Wildfire Institute (CWI), and Chris Anthony, former Chief Deputy Director of Cal Fire and Strategic Wildfire Advisor.
Together, they discuss how communities, governments, and land managers can move beyond outdated suppression-focused models toward a future that embraces beneficial fire practices - including prescribed burning and Indigenous cultural fire - while navigating the complex regulatory and social landscapes that often inhibit progress.
This deep-dive conversation covers the evolving cultural, political, and scientific narratives around wildfire, the importance of decentralizing fire mitigation efforts, and why a more informed, empowered public is key to long-term resilience.
Key Takeaways:
Intentional Fire is Essential: Proactively using fire through practices like Indigenous cultural burning and prescribed burning helps restore ecological balance, clear hazardous fuel buildup, and reduce the severity of wildfires. Marissa and Chris explain how good fire, when carefully applied, can become a powerful tool for wildfire risk reduction, ecosystem health, and cultural revitalization.
Decentralized Decision-Making Builds Resilience: Top-down fire management structures often create bottlenecks and delays. The episode emphasizes empowering local communities, landowners, and Indigenous firekeepers to make timely, informed decisions. This shift allows for faster response, culturally relevant practices, and greater ownership of land stewardship at the ground level.
Firefighting Culture Must Evolve: Traditionally trained for suppression, firefighting forces need to expand their role to include mitigation and beneficial fire practices. Chris highlights the opportunity to retrain and repurpose this existing workforce, not just for response, but for proactive ecosystem management, building a new generation of fire stewards.
Policy Change is Crucial but Slow: Current regulations were built around a fear-based view of fire, often ignoring its beneficial uses. The conversation explores how environmental review processes, permitting barriers, and outdated legislation hinder progress. Real change requires courage from legislators, support from constituents, and policies informed by modern science and Indigenous knowledge.
Public Perception is a Major Barrier: One of the biggest challenges is shifting how the public views fire - from fear and destruction to opportunity and renewal. This requires widespread education, cultural campaigns, and clear communication to normalize the idea of smoke, managed burns, and fire-adapted landscapes. Without public support, even the best plans may stall.
Insurance and Incentive Structures Must Adapt: The episode dives into how outdated insurance models ignore local mitigation efforts, discouraging homeowners from investing in fire-smart actions. A better approach involves using parcel-level risk data and rewarding defensible space, home hardening, and community-wide mitigation with fairer rates and coverage. This could be a game-changer in reshaping resilience incentives.
Follow the guest on:
Important Links:
Intentional Fire Website: https://intentionalfire.org/
The Stewardship Project: https://climateandwildfire.org/cwi-projects/the-stewardship-project/
CWI Signature Convenings: https://climateandwildfire.org/our-work/cwi-events/
CWI Blog: https://climateandwildfire.org/blog/
Sponsors
Notable Quotes:
[00:00:05] Chris Anthony: "The scale of change is occurring faster than our ability to adapt to it, but also to mitigate it. And I think that's where the complexity comes in. So if we continue to use the same tools, the same mindsets, the historical approach or the cultural approach that we've had, that's not going to change what the future is going to look like."
[00:36:47] Marissa Christansen: "Intentional fire is a good kind of catchall phrase for a bunch of different helpful, beneficial fire types that can be a part of our toolbox. One of those practices is cultural burning by our Indigenous tribes, both here in the United States and in Canada. A lot of these tribes have practices that they've been doing for thousands of years, long before we got here, as a way of both demonstrating their cultural norms as well as managing the landscape that they have been stewards of for all this time."
[01:42:08] Matthew Kristoff: “If we can start to understand and realize a cultural reciprocity with fire, all of a sudden, this is just something we talk about and think about and converse about. If everyone's doing it, you're going to see solutions so much faster, that's just that cultural shift is going to be so powerful.”
Takeaways with Timestamps:
[00:00:00] – Introduction to the Episode & Guests - Matthew Kristoff introduces the theme of the episode - rethinking society’s relationship with wildfire - and welcomes Marissa Christansen and Chris Anthony, two experts working to reshape how communities and governments approach wildfire resilience.
[00:03:15] – Defining Intentional Fire - Discussion begins around the concept of “intentional fire” as a proactive strategy. Chris and Matthew distinguish between destructive wildfires and the controlled use of fire for land health, resilience, and community protection.
[00:11:23] – The Role of the Climate and Wildfire Institute (CWI) - Marissa explains how CWI acts as a “boundary organization,” connecting policymakers, researchers, and practitioners to drive real-world solutions for wildfire mitigation and response.
[00:17:58] – Why Traditional Firefighting Approaches Fall Short - Chris discusses the increasing scale and complexity of fires and why the old suppression-first mindset is failing. He emphasizes the need for innovation, collaboration, and adaptive strategies.
[00:26:27] – Rethinking the Firefighting Workforce - Chris outlines how firefighting roles can expand beyond emergency response to include prevention, mitigation, and stewardship through prescribed burns and risk reduction, offering a cultural and training shift.
[00:36:41] – What is Intentional Fire? Why It Matters - Marissa defines intentional fire as encompassing Indigenous cultural burning and prescribed fire. She highlights the bureaucratic and regulatory hurdles that prevent effective fire use - even when we know it's beneficial.
[00:43:12] – Public Perception & Cultural Change - The conversation pivots to the need for public education. Marissa and Chris stress that intentional fire won’t gain traction without shifting public fear of fire toward understanding its benefits and normalizing its role in land management.
[00:59:14] – Indigenous Fire Stewardship & Policy Progress - Marissa talks about recent progress, including a first-of-its-kind MOU with the Karuk Tribe, which supports cultural burning rights. They discuss how Indigenous practices can have a large-scale impact when empowered.
[01:03:42] – Regulatory & Institutional Barriers - Chris explains how outdated regulations, like those in the Clean Air Act, unintentionally block beneficial fire. The need for leadership, legislative reform, and a willingness to revise rigid structures is emphasized.
[01:17:05] – CWI Convenings & Cross-Sector Dialogues - Marissa describes CWI’s convenings, which bring together 60–70 cross-sector experts to identify barriers and actionable opportunities for wildfire resilience. The tone is collaborative, respectful, and focused on real solutions.
[01:23:02] – Insurance Reform & Risk-Based Mitigation - Both guests dig into how insurance companies could use mitigation data, like defensible space or home hardening, to incentivize safer communities and reduce wildfire exposure. They stress the urgency of modernizing risk models.
[01:30:59] – Rebuilding After Fire: Missed Opportunities - Marissa shares concerns that post-fire rebuilding in high-risk areas often replicates past mistakes. Despite available fire-resistant materials and knowledge, rebuilding favors speed over resilience, missing a key moment for transformation.
[01:35:50] – Unlocking Local Response Capacity - Discussion turns to empowering locals - including farmers, landowners, and retired firefighters - to support mitigation and fire response efforts. Chris shares how California timberland owners are effectively included in emergency coordination.
[01:42:44] – Vision for the Future - Marissa imagines a future where fire literacy is widespread and tech-enabled mitigation support is accessible to every homeowner. Chris shares a real-life model in Lake Tahoe where agencies, tech tools, residents, and philanthropy collaborate for smarter risk reduction.
ARTICLE
Why Smarter Fire Management Is the Key to Safer Communities
Fire is becoming a bigger threat than ever. Wildfires in the urban interface are growing faster, more intense, and harder to control. Our current methods just can't keep up with these changes.
It's clear that we need a new approach to fire management that focuses on smarter ways to handle fire, not just fight it. Fire has always been part of our environment, but how we deal with it needs to change.
In this article, we'll hear from two experts: Marissa Christansen and Chris Anthony. Marissa is the Executive Director of the Climate and Wildfire Institute, a nonprofit that connects science to public policy to help communities prepare for and reduce fire risks.
Chris, a former Chief Deputy Director at Cal Fire, has extensive experience in fire management and focuses on promoting beneficial fire practices. Together, they're helping shape smarter fire management strategies to better protect our communities.
We'll explore how smarter fire management works, why it's essential, and what needs to change in how we think about and respond to fire. You'll also learn about the role of collaboration, technology, and community efforts in reducing fire risks and building fire-resilient communities.
Why Our Approach to Smarter Fire Management Needs to Change Fast
Wild and urban fires are growing faster and hotter than before. They're spreading in ways we can't control. Our current systems just can't keep up with the speed or scale of these fires.
The main problem is that we still use old methods and mindsets. We keep fighting fires the same way we did years ago. But the fire has changed.
So should we. Not every fire is harmful. Some fires can help forests stay healthy when used the right way. Knowing the difference is key.
What Needs to Shift in Smarter Fire Management
We need to change how we think, act, and plan. Here's what that means:
New mindsets: Fire isn't always bad. Some fire helps prevent bigger disasters.
Smarter tools: We can't rely only on old tools. We need faster, better ways to respond.
Working together: No one group can fix this alone. Communities, experts, and leaders must join efforts.
The Role of Collaboration
The Climate and Wildfire Institute connects science with real-life decisions. They don't fight fires directly but help others do it better. They bring the right people, data, and tools together.
Leaders often face hard choices, like which areas need help first. Good data makes these choices clearer. That way, even though calls feel fair and well-informed.
Fires are part of life now. Instead of fearing them, we need to plan for them. That means preparing before a fire starts. It means learning from past mistakes.
And it means using fire in ways that protect us. We can't stop all fires, but we can manage them better. The time to change how we deal with fire is now.
Using Smarter Fire Management to Reduce Wildfire Risk
Not all fires are harmful. Some are helpful. The problem lies in the size and intensity. Large, fast-moving fires destroy homes and ecosystems. But small, planned fires can help prevent them.
Understanding Good Fire vs. Bad Fire
We need to stop seeing fire as always bad. Good fire clears dry plants and brush that feed wildfires. It creates safer conditions for the future. Bad fire spreads too fast and causes serious damage.
To manage both, we need to:
Train firefighters to use both good and bad fire tactics
Shift the mindset within fire agencies
Help people understand why some fire is needed
Why Change Has Been Slow
Getting money for firefighting is easier than funding prevention. But prevention saves more in the long run. Another challenge is the lack of tools to judge early fires. Without data, crews play it safe and stop every fire.
Better Tools, Better Decisions
Technology could fix this. A satellite system could spot fires early and predict how they'll spread. That helps firefighters decide whether to control the fire or let it burn safely.
What Is Intentional Fire?
Intentional fire includes two main types:
Cultural burning: Used by Indigenous groups to care for land
Prescribed burns: Planned burns to lower fire risk
Both methods work. But rules and paperwork often slow things down, even when trained teams are ready.
Building Public Trust Through Smarter Fire Management
People worry when they hear about fires near homes. That's normal. But they need to know that not all fire is dangerous.
With the right training and tools, crews can use fire in ways that help. Change takes time. But we can move in the right direction with public support and smart planning.
How to Build Public Support for Smarter Fire Management
Fires affect more than just forests. They also shape how people think, act, and respond to danger. If we want to use good fire to prevent bad fire, we must change how people see it.
Reaching the Public Where They Are
People often want to help but don't know how. Sharing the right message with the right group makes a big difference. Local groups like schools, churches, and community centers already have trust.
They can help spread clear, useful steps instead of just warnings. While famous voices may draw attention, their messages fade quickly. What sticks is steady, simple information people can use in daily life.
Supporting Cultural Fire Practices
Prescribed burns help lower fire risk. Cultural burning also protects tradition and identity. Both are valuable but not treated the same. Indigenous groups often face more limits and less support.
That's starting to change. Some tribes now work with the state to manage land together. Laws like SB 310 and the Fix Our Forests Act also aim to make this easier. These early steps show that better systems are possible.
Breaking Policy Barriers
Old rules often block progress. To fix that, we need to:
Update rules that weren't built for today's fire risks
Support leaders who remove barriers, not add them
Let trained local and Indigenous fire teams lead where they can
Accept that progress means small risks to avoid bigger harm
Fires don't choose sides. They don't care about politics or borders. We must act with clear rules, shared tools, and public trust to face them well. That's how we make space for fire that helps, not harms.
Creating a Safer Future with Smarter Fire Management and Community Action
Fixing wildfire risk needs many hands working together. It's not just one solution but a mix of efforts. The good news is we are making progress.
Why Collaboration Works
Fire affects everyone, no matter their politics. That makes it one of the few issues that bring people together. When scientists, planners, insurers, firefighters, and regular people meet, they can find real answers.
Workshops don't just share ideas. They split into teams to solve problems like smoking, housing, and insurance. Sometimes, there is tension, but that helps. Smaller groups keep talks honest and respectful.
Insurance
Many people cannot get insurance in fire-prone areas. Some lose their homes and struggle to recover. This risks whole communities.
But change is coming:
Insurers listen more to how communities reduce fire risk.
New tools show how each home can lower its own risk.
Some places prove these plans work well.
Better risk data means people who protect their homes pay less for insurance. This could fix many problems.
Smarter Building, Not Just Fast Rebuilding
After fires, many rebuild in the same way and the same place. That is not wise. Fireproof materials exist and don't cost more. Without rules, people stick to old habits. Governments must enforce better building codes.
Use Local Hands, Not Just Big Systems
Local people often have tools and know-how and want to help. Some places now train locals to act when fires come. This works well and should spread.
The future depends on everyone working together, public, private, and community. It's possible. We just need to keep at it.
Conclusion
Smarter Fire Management is the key to handling the growing wildfire problem. Our current methods aren't enough anymore. We need to rethink how we approach fire.
Some fires can be helpful, but we need to control them better. Using tools like prescribed burns and cultural burning can reduce fire risk and protect our communities.
We also need to work together. Firefighters, communities, experts, and leaders all have a role to play. Everyone needs to be on the same page to make real progress.
It's also important to educate the public. People need to know that not all fire is dangerous. When controlled, fire can help prevent larger disasters.
We can make better decisions and act faster with smarter tools like satellite systems to spot fires early. Smarter Fire Management will help us protect both people and nature.
But we can only succeed if we work together and use the right tools. The time to act is now, and with the right effort, we can make our communities safer for the future.
FAQs
What is Smarter Fire Management?
Smarter Fire Management uses modern strategies and tools to control fires and reduce risks, including prescribed burns and technology.
Why do we need Smarter Fire Management now?
Fires are growing faster and more intense. Our old methods can't keep up, so we need smarter solutions to stay ahead.
How does Smarter Fire Management help communities?
It reduces fire risks, protects lives, and helps save homes and property using better tools and planning.
How does technology support Smarter Fire Management?
Tech-like satellite systems help detect fires early and predict their spread, enabling quicker and smarter responses.
How can Smarter Fire Management lower insurance costs?
Effective fire risk management can lower insurance premiums by reducing the potential for damage from wildfires.